General David Petraeus (ret) is one of America's most renowned warriors. As the leader of American forces in Iraq he was the main architect of the successful Surge strategy which turned the course of that war. "Conflict: The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine" by General Petraeus and co-author Andrew Roberts, is his latest scholarship. General Petraeus was kind enough to answer some questions regarding his book and Ukraine, as well as modern and future warfare for us.
Q: Why did you write this book?
A: Andrew Roberts contacted me after the Russians invaded Ukraine and proposed that we do a book together that provided the military history context for the war in Ukraine. I knew Andrew well, and we had worked together in a number of events together in the past. Beyond that, given that he is one of the foremost historians and biographers of our time, I was delighted to work with him in writing Conflict. Happily, our subsequent collaboration was very intellectually stimulating and most enjoyable, as was the book tour. (I should note that this is Andrew’s 20th book and the first he has ever done with a co-author, and I felt a bit flattered to be his first co-author.)
Q: Is supporting Ukraine a moral and/or a political, military imperative?
A: I believe it is all of the above. Supporting Ukraine in the face of a brutal, unprovoked invasion by Russia clearly is a moral imperative. It is also hugely important in geopolitical terms. And it is vital militarily, as well, given that Russia clearly would go on to threaten NATO countries and others (e.g., Moldova), were it to succeed in Ukraine.
Q: What happens if Ukraine loses as far as it affects the United States?
A: If Russia was able to seize a sizable additional amount of Ukraine, topple the Ukrainian government, and replace President Zelensky with a pro-Russian figure, Russia’s ambitions would expand to include restoring more of the former Soviet Union, likely eyeing the Baltic States (NATO members) and Moldova. The former, in particular, would set up potential conflict with NATO. Given that, Russia clearly has to be denied its objectives in Ukraine and brought to understand that such aggression brings enormous losses, not just on the battlefield, but also on the Russian home front in terms of financial, economic, and personal sanctions and export controls. Aggression such as that by Russia cannot be allowed to succeed.
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Q: Can Ukraine beat Russia?
A: It is possible, I think, that Ukraine could liberate that part of its territory that is occupied by Russian forces if Ukraine was sufficiently enabled by western countries with additional security, financial, and economic assistance. Indeed, I believe that all NATO (and western) countries should be doing all that we can to enable Ukraine to do just that and to help Ukraine convince Vladimir Putin that Russia will not be able to out-suffer the Ukrainians, Europeans, and North Americans. Putin should be given no hope that he might be able to achieve his objectives in Ukraine.
Q: How much does Russian propaganda affect the American debate regarding Ukraine?
A: Such an assessment is necessarily somewhat subjective, and I am cautious in trying to put some quantifier on it; however, it has been repeatedly shown that Russia has on innumerable occasions sought to influence (and inflame) debates and election outcomes not just in the United States, but in many other western countries as well. Hence, we can be very confident that Russian and Russian-supported actors are seeking to undermine support for Ukraine in the US and in other countries, as well.
Q: What resource(s) would you recommend for anyone studying the current Russia-Ukraine conflict?
A: In terms of media, I would commend coverage by the team at The Economist and by the reporters at The Washington Post to those seeking to understand the dynamics and trends -- augmenting that by listening to the War on the Rocks interviews with the most astute observers on Ukraine like Michael Coffman. For day-to-day tracking of developments on the battlefield, I recommend highly the nightly updates by the Institute for the Study of War (noting that I am on ISW’s Board).
With warfare always becoming more technological, yet still ultimately a human endeavor, can you speak to the importance of research and development funding from the American taxpayer as well as public/private partnerships with companies (i.e. Verizon and others)? Federal R&D funding is of enormous importance, but so, too, are R&D efforts by private sector companies. Together, they are vital to ensuring that the US has the military (and commercial) technologies that have kept America the most capable military in the world and the world’s greatest economy as well.
Q: Does the US military need to modify recruitment/talent management when it comes to fields such as Cyber?
A: Yes, and it is.
Q: Most people in America believe the U.S. should come first. What should that look like in terms of engaging in the international order such as NATO etc.?
A: We are part of NATO and have alliances with other countries because it is in our national security interest to do so. Similarly, our actions on the world stage are also in our interest in terms of sustaining our economy and prosperity. It is not an act of charity or magnanimity for the United States to lead so many global endeavors – and to seek allies and partners in so doing. It is, again, in our national interest to do so. Clearly, we need to be thoughtful and measured in our aspirations and actions, especially when it comes to the use of force; however, if America does not shoulder the considerable burdens of global leadership, no other country will do so.
"Conflict" by General David Petraeus and Andrew Roberts is one of those books best purchased immediately, if circumstances allow, as opposed to waiting for a cheaper price elsewhere. In what undoubtedly will become a seminal work on warfare, one of America’s greatest living warriors takes us through the evolution of warfare since the end of World War II, covering conventional, unconventional, modern, and future warfare.
The most relevant portion of Conflict is undoubtedly regarding the present invasion of Ukraine by Russia. What is revealed is how well Ukraine has done against the Russian horde while consequently how important Western aid is.
Perhaps the most interesting part of Conflict is not the present Russian invasion of Ukraine, which has seen a myriad of warfare from World War I style trenches to crowdsourcing from private entities to buy drones that are sinking the Russian Navy in the Black Sea. Rather, the most interesting part of Conflict is the last chapter, a section that deals with the challenges of warfare in the future where information operations and the media will become increasingly important, especially in an age of undeclared wars and a greater overall interest in freedom of the press.
This important book is destined to become a modern-day classic. Written in an easy-to-read style of popular history, coupled with scholarship, Conflict is a work that will serve the military professional, academic and reader of popular history alike.
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